FIA Friday press conference - Italy
(Part One): Mattia BINOTTO (Ferrari), Mario ISOLA (Pirelli)
Q: Let’s start with some Monza memories please. Just tell us, what does Monza mean to you? And also, tell us about your earliest memories of this race track?
Mattia Binotto: What does it mean? Certainly a lot. It’s the home grand prix, the Italian Grand Prix, it’s the circuit where power, speed, is the most important. So as well as I would say, as a past engine engineer, it certainly has been very important. So, certainly here, you know that you can feel the passion of the tifosi. It’s a circuit where for Ferrari doing well is almost as important as the rest of the championship. But yes, I think it’s great to be here in Monza. It’s great to be here with fans in the grandstands. It’s important for us having the tifosi supporting us. That’s something which is key. So, it’s really something important and great. On the memories, many. My very first time working for Ferrari was here at Monza, 1997. And since then certainly a lot of emotions. Good times. Good victories. I remember the one – maybe I’m wrong on the date – should be 2003, I think coming from Hungary with Michael. Difficult race, championship somehow compromised so very important to have a good race here in Monza, and Monza did a fantastic entire weekend, winning ahead of Montoya, and that really was the change on the championship, since then, and finally he won the championship. And then I cannot forget, no doubt as well, 2019, Charles winning here in Monza. It’s not far behind. Fantastic race, defending the position and then the podium with all the fans and the tifosi there celebrating him, was something really, really special. I will never forget it.
Q: Mario, please?
Mario Isola: My memories are from, I would say ’85-’86. I was one of the tifosi, as Mattia said, because living 30 minutes from here it was quite easy with my small motorbike to come to the circuit, as most of the tifosi that are coming here, I was enjoying Formula 1 but also other races. And then the first time for me in Pirelli team kit was in 2001 with the GT Championship. The FIA GT Championship, and obviously since 2011 with Formula 1, so plenty of memories, nice memories and it’s like being at home, basically.
Q: Mattia, Charles said yesterday that this is likely to be a difficult weekend for Ferrari. How’s progress so far?
MB: I think on paper it’s a difficult weekend for us. We know that we we don’t seal the gap on power performance and somehow with the long straights you’ve got in Monza, that’s a clear disadvantage. I think if we look at FP1 so far, we are in the midfield. No surprises from that. Obviously we will see this afternoon in quali. The car has balance, no big issues with the set-up but certainly we do not feel we can challenge for the first rows but, as I said, that was not a surprise, somehow expected. It will be an interesting weekend with the sprint qualifying race format, having already the quali in the afternoon, so this morning very little time for the drivers to adapt to the low downforce package. We have braking, high speed braking and I’m pretty curious. Pretty curious to see the quali. The drivers drove a lot this morning, a lot of laps, all of them, because without doubt confidence will be the most important for the afternoon.
Q: On the subject of confidence, I wanted to ask you about Carlos’ problems last weekend in Zandvoort. He seemed pretty perplexed after the race. Do you understand what the issues were now?
MB: Yes, certainly after the race he was perplexed, as you said, because he was not as fast as he was expecting, and not as close as usual to Charles. We made all the analysis on the car in terms of set-up, internal functionality. We found something on the car which was not performing 100 per cent, without going into all the details. I think that we reported that back to Carlos, happy with the explanations. Is he more comfortable now, attacking Monza, and that’s what’s the most important for us.
Q: There’s a lot going on elsewhere in the paddock. We’ve had a lot of driver announcements this week. There’s only one seat left for 2022 now, over at Alfa Romeo. You supply the team with power units. How much of a say do you get into who takes that drive?
MB: Not really much. I think that’s really a choice of the team. The team are really independent on the choice of their driver, which is important for us as well. It’s clear as well that Antonio for us, he’s our reserve driver, he’s an Italian driver, he’s part of the Ferrari family, he’s a Ferrari driver, so for us it will be great to have him still driving next year. We believe that he is a good driver and somehow he deserves to have a seat next year but, as I said, we cannot influence the team decision. As power unit supplier, obviously I think we are always evaluating the collaboration, the partnership with team, and obviously the driver choice is part of the evaluation.
Q: Can we throw it forward to next year. Tell us about the 2022 car. How far advanced are you?
MB: 2022 is progressing. It’s progressing and now is the time you are normally freezing the chassis geometries and the entire concept of the car, suspension layouts, cooling layouts, so let’s say that the concept is certainly a lot advanced and while the concept is frozen, the chassis is already in production. It’s time to continue working on the body shape, on the aerodynamics, bodywork, wings etcetera, and no doubt we are working a lot as well on the power unit. The power unit next year will be brand new in terms of, let me say, concept and design. So, for us, it will be important for us to make the most important step we can, knowing that, as I said before, we’ve still got a gap in terms of performance on the power unit. So, the objective is really to try to catch that disadvantage, to close it. That’s why I think, on the engine, we are working very hard and that key moment where you need to find still performance but to start fully homologating the reliability of the product for the next season.
Q: Mario, while we’re talking 2022, how’s progress with next year’s tyres?
MI: We finalised the development of the tyres and after Budapest we made an analysis on the result. We are quite happy with the next product, feedback from drivers was positive and now we have the last test for Wet and Intermediate in Magny-Cours next Wednesday and Thursday. And then, let’s see what happens with the new cars because, as you know, we develop the 2022 tyres with the mule cars that the teams supplied for testing. We are expecting higher loads with the new cars, so obviously this has an impact on the tyres. Nothing major. I mean, it’s a normal evolution that is coming from the teams. And now we are preparing the post-season test in Abu Dhabi where all the teams have the opportunity to test the final version of the product for next year and get important information and this is where we are at the moment.
Q: You’re testing next week with Alpine at Magny-Cours. Why Magny-Cours?
MI: Because there are not many circuits where we can run a wet test in a consistent conditions. Magny-Cours is equipped with some tanks – they don’t have sprinklers but they can wet the circuit quite well. You need a circuit that is flat in order to keep consistency in the level of water. In the past we did a test in Abu Dhabi, for example, during the night. Obviously Magny-Cours is closer, compared to Abu Dhabi, and it’s a way also to test the tyre on a different circuit, compared to Paul Ricard – that is our reference circuit for wet-weather testing.
Q: Can we throw it back to Zandvoort now? Incredible race track, the drivers loved it, did the tyres behave as you expected through the banked corners there?
MI: Yeah, and thanks to the simulation that we got from the teams we had the possibility to evaluate the additional load and stress that is due to the banking and select the right compounds. And also, give them proscriptions for the tyres in Zandvoort. Looking at the tyres after the race, they were performing as expected. All the three compounds were suitable for the race, they were working quite well, teams had the option to choose different strategies and that is the final target for us. So, quite happy with the choice, and also the behaviour of the tyres during the race. That was very new for us. We had basically no information on the track roughness. That is also important for us to know in advance.
QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR
Q: (Luke Smith – Autosport) Question for Mattia. Mattia, you’ve spoken about Mick Schumacher’s progression through his rookie season, earlier this year. There does appear to be a bit of a situation brewing at Haas between Mick and his team-mate Nikita Mazepin. I just wanted to know what sort of knowledge do you have of it? Are you keeping an eye on the situation there, and how it might impact Mick’s development?
MB: What you’re mentioning is something that certainly the Haas team principal is managing. As Ferrari, we are not entering into those details and even not too aware. We are more focussed on Mick, in terms of progression. We said that this season for him was important to not have too much pressure, but to make sure he was continuously improving in terms of experience and driving. I think Mick is doing very well, it is a first season, certainly there are things that can be addressed or improved but as a first season, I think he’s doing a proper job. Happy to see the progress. Now I think next year will as well be important for him. A second year. I think by then we will expect a step in terms of speed and, let me say, consistency but so far, happy. And, as I said, whatever is happening within the Haas team, that’s not really our affair.
Q: (Edd Straw – The Race) Question for Mattia please. You spoke a while ago about a few engine upgrades that are coming in the second half of this season. Do you have any update on the schedule for that – and when those final few power unit upgrades will be introduced?
MB: We are working very hard to have them ready as soon as possible. It’s a change in technology on the hybrid side. In order to introduce them, we need first to transport the materials, and being dangerous materials, you need formal homologations and certifications for it. So it’s not only a matter of developing the hybrid system on the dynos and to somehow prove their reliability, but there is a lot of aspects that need to be addressed before to have them available on track. At the moment, there is not a race that is decided. It will be as soon as possible because we believe running it as much as we can this season will be of interest for next season. So, hopefully it will be in the next races and very soon.
Q: ( Erwin Jaeggi - motorsport.com) Motorsport Network is running a global Formula 1 fan survey in association with Formula 1, and among the questions is one about forcing the drivers to use all three tyre compounds during a grand prix. There was talk about this a couple of years ago. Has it been discussed more recently and what do you think of the idea?
MI: Yeah, it was discussed a couple of years ago and the conclusion was that forcing the drivers to use the three compounds, the result can be that everybody is just converging on the same strategy, so any time that you give more constraint, you have everybody doing the same, that is not in the spirit of what we want to achieve. It means a mix of one- and two-stop strategies using the three different compounds and so on and so on, not having everybody stopping at the same lap and changing the tyres using the same sequence of compounds. So, that’s why the idea was abandoned a couple of years ago. Obviously it is something we can discuss for the future – but I believe that, as I said, we need a regulation that is easy to understand also for spectators. Obviously encouraging different strategies but not making too much complicated with a lot of different constraints and so on, and so on. That’s probably the target for the future.
Q: (Dieter Rencken - Racing Lines) Mattia, Ross Brawn says that Formula 1 is potentially looking at making sprint races standalone events rather than a qualifying session. Are you a) in favour of sprint events in any format and b) would making them standalone events devalue the grand prix, in that there would two official winners over the race weekend?
MB: After the very first time we had the sprint qualifying race this season we were all positive and I think that as a first attempt it was certainly interesting. We said at first we should try to conclude the experiment before to have a final judgement. Obviously here in Monza is the second attempt and we will have a third one this season. And I think honestly it is too early to decide. I think I said it in the very start of the press conference this weekend may be interesting as well because there will be that different format compared to the normal one. So I think that certainly having the quali on a Friday, having only one hour for the drivers to be prepared for it and turning then into a parc ferme is something that is interesting because it jeopardises somehow the overall balance between the teams. So in favour generally speaking and I’m pretty sure we can address it in terms of details, there are things that can be improved. But I think those ones… again, we can be open-minded to discuss with F1, FIA and the other teams but I think we can only do it when the three races and the full experiment will be concluded. I am very happy to hear that there are different proposals, like for example from drivers, that the quali on Friday is setting the grid on Sunday and having a mini race on Saturday with the inverse grid based compared the he championship, whatever ideas can be interesting but I think it is too early to judge and decide.
Q: Do you like the idea of a reverse grid on Saturday?
MB: I like it. I like it because I think for the show and spectacle it can be of interest. At the very start of the discussion of the mini race format as Ferrari we were the one proposing it. Because I think whatever is your position in the classification somehow that’s bringing some extra spectacle and that’s important for our fans and it’s important for the entertainment that F1 may offer.
Q: (Luke Smith - Autosport) Mattia, you spoke about Antonio Giovinazzi and his future and what may happen next year. If Alfa Romeo did go down a different route with its drivers what would you do with Antonio? Would you look to place him somewhere else in the Ferrari family?
MB: That’s something on which we are not starting discussing with him. A lot will depend on what he’s willing [to do] and what is Antonio’s interest for the future. But I think the first efforts should be to try to find a place and a seat in F1 for him and that’s where we are fully focused at the moment.
Q: (Luke Smith - Autosport) I wanted to follow up on the Motorsport Network fan survey that’s being done in conjunction with F1. For both, how important is it to get these surveys done to get the fan opinion in what they want to see from our sport?
MI: It’s really important because we invest in the sport for the success of the sport, so it is important to understand and to know what the fans want. Any idea, any suggestions is very important and we need to evaluate everything. Then obviously there are other details and problem to understand and analyse but it is important to have a feedback. I did the survey myself so it’s important. MB: Doing surveys is always important because you’ve got the feedback but I think what’s more important then is to analyse carefully the feedback and the results of the survey to make the right and proper judgement and eventually to put actions in place. So surveys are certainly important but most important is what you are doing with it.
(Part Two): Franz TOST (AlphaTauri), Frédéric VASSEUR (Alfa Romeo)
Q: Fred, there is an awful lot going on in the world of Alfa Romeo at the moment, so it’s probably best to do it in chronological order. So first, can we just get a word on Robert Kubica’s performance last weekend at Zandvoort. Did he surprise you?
Frédéric Vasseur: Honestly, yes, because he did a great job, He jumped into the car on Saturday morning. I think that Zandvoort is not an easy one. We saw on Friday in FP1 and FP2 that the difference between the drivers was huge, much bigger than anywhere else, and Robert had to jump into the car at the last minute for FP3. IO think he did very well in FP3 and quali and I was even more surprised after the race because that was the first time for him to drive the car with high fuel since 2019 and at the end he did a great job. He had a good fight with Seb Vettel and he was even able to overtake Latifi into the last lap. I hope that he enjoyed the weekend and that was also part of this and now he is back into the car in Monza from the beginning of the weekend, with a different approach and I hope that he will do a good again.
Q: He’s got a much smoother start into the weekend, starting in FP1. What are your hopes for him here?
FV: Even if he has the experience of last week, it’s quite a difficult exercise because after Zandvoort Monza is also not the easiest one. It’s a very low downforce track and you have to find the braking reference and so on. But I think it’s OK. He has a lot of experience. He’s able to build up his own pace during the weekend. It’s a long way until Sunday and I’m sure that he will do a good job.
Q: Do you expect Kimi to be back in Russia. How is he and what have you heard from him?
FV: I spoke with Kimi this week. He’s OK and he has no big symptoms. But you know the protocol that when you are tested positive that you have to stay 10 days in isolation. It means 10 days is Sunday or Monday and I hope that he will be back in Sochi for sure.
Q: Let’s talk about your recent driver announcement - Valtteri Bottas joining the team next season. Why Valtteri?
FV: Why not? No, but he’s a frontrunner in the championship over the last five years. If you compare with Lewis, he had always a huge performance in quali, he was something 0.2 per cent off average and he will bring also his own experience and the fact he worked with Mercedes will be an asset for sure. And regarding Valtteri I think the other point is that from his own side I think he wants to have a mid-term project, this is an important step, and also to be able to be somehow the leader of the team and he was always next to Lewis and he will have to take more responsibility with us for sure and this will be a challenge for Valtteri but I think he is ready to do it.
Q: You worked with him in the junior categories, what are Valtteri’s standout qualities?
FV: For me he is a competitor. I remember perfectly the season in GP3 in 2010 or ‘11 the start was difficult but then he was able to put everything together and to win six or seven races in a row. If you have a look over the last 10 years he was always on the podium, always fighting for pole positions and this is important because it’s a kind of education to be at the front of the grid and for sure he will bring his huge experience to the team.
Q: And when can we expect news on the identity of your second driver for next year?
FV: As soon as the decision will be made! We always said that we wanted to have a look also on the junior series. It means that they are doing two races in a row in Monza and Sochi and probably by the end of September, with my shareholders, that we will discuss the point.
Q: Can you tell us who is on the shortlist?
FV: I don’t want to give you names because if I forget someone it will be a drama. But you will do the list by yourself.
Q: Can you tell us how many drivers your are talking to?
FV: It’s not because you are talking to someone that he is on the list. I think that Franz is also speaking with half of the grid because we are working in the same paddock, but it is not because you are speaking with something that you want to have the car in the car next year. You know that the list there probably five or six names on the list. Let’s see.
Q: Franz, you are returning to Monza as the remaining champions, the latest winners of the Italian Grand Prix. Can we start by getting your memories of last year?
Franz Tost: Of course the memories are very positive and it was very emotional to win as an Italian team the Italian Grand Prix here in Monza. But you know this is past and now we have to be concentrated to this race weekend. The next step is the qualifying and the sprint qualifying and the race and I hope that we will be competitive, that Pierre will be within the first five or six cars and then we will see.
Q: I know you want to focus on this weekend but I did want to throw it back to Zandvoort and talk about Pierre’s drive to fourth place. How good was he last weekend?
FT: He did a fantastic qualifying and of course a real good race. It was such a controlled race from his side. It was at such a high, mature level that it was really fun on the pit wall to observe him, because he had everything under control. After the start, when he kept the Ferraris behind him, it was Leclerc, which was quite close, and then how he managed the tyres was really very good and yeah, how he did the pit stops and everything, how he overtook Alonso was a very important part in the race and therefore he deserved this fourth position. It was a fantastic drive from his side.
Q: Was it the best race he’s done for you?
FT: The best race was last year, because he won. This time he was only fourth. He did a fantastic race in Baku, when he finished third. I remember back in Sao Paulo last year, the fight against Hamilton for the second place. This was also a really good race. No, there are a couple of fantastic races Pierre Gasly showed us.
Q: We’ve talked a lot about Pierre and of course Yuki’s staying with the team as well next year; you’ve got the same driver line-up. Was it ever in doubt?
FT: For me, personally, not, because nowadays if you bring a rookie into Formula 1 you must give him time. Formula 1 is really so complex, is so difficult that you can’t expect a young guy coming, showing to the experienced drivers where to go. No. Yuki, so far has done a reasonably good job. He was fast, he finished in Budapest on the sixth position and his first race he was ninth in Bahrain. Of course he had some crashes but I always say the crash period is part of the education process, how will someone find the limit if he’s not allowed to crash. Now I hope that this crash period is finished now. We are looking forward to the second half of the season although it will not become an easy one because all these young drivers don’t know either America or Mexico nor Sao Paulo, nor Turkey. Saudi Arabia no one knows which means that there’s a lot of work in front of us to bring him on a good level but, beside Pierre Gasly, who is one of the fastest drivers in Formula 1 nowadays, he can learn a lot, he can compare the data and with his skills, I think that he will close this gap and I’m looking forward to this driver line-up next year when we will have a new car, so at least we will have a constant and that’s important for us.
QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR
Q: (Christian Nimmervoll – motorsport.com) Franz, this is a bit of a hypothetical one but I think you have data from the simulator which will have your answer probably. Max is widely regarded as one of the fastest if not the fastest drivers in Formula 1. If you would sit in an Alpha Tauri rather than in a Red Bull, do you think he would be able to score regular podiums and the occasional victory?
FT: Phew. I would like to have him in the team. You know we had him already, yeah? It’s a hypothetical question because we must not forget Red Bull Technology, for me, is the most experienced and best design group in Formula 1 and the Red Bull car is for sure sometimes faster than the Scuderia Alpha Tauri car because they are operating on another level, they have much for people, therefore there is more money and they are the best engineers working there and therefore I think that Max has a fantastic car.
Q: (Alan Baldwin – Reuters) Fred, I appreciate that you don’t want to give away too much information about drivers you might be talking to but Guangyu Zhou has been making a lot of headlines recently and particularly speculation about him becoming the first Chinese Formula 1 driver with Alfa Romeo. Can you just confirm: is he on your list and how good a chance has he got?
FV: He is like the other front runners in F2. He’s doing a good job in F2, he’s won a couple of races from the beginning of the season but as with the three other guys able to do pole position but you know that F2 this season is a bit different compared to the past because there are only four events so far but on difficult tracks because the first one was Bahrain, then they went to Monaco, Baku and the fourth one was Silverstone. I think Monza and Sochi are a bit more conventional and let’s have a look at the evolution of the young ones but then we will see what happens and we are there.
Q: Fred, on the topic of young drivers, Scott Mitchell from The Race has sent this email question and he says: you’ve said before that you don’t want to rush things with Theo Pourchaire. If he’s not an Alfa Romeo driver in 2022, does that mean whoever you do pick to be Valtteri’s teammate is likely to only be signed on a one year deal before Theo is then promoted in 2023?
FV: Let us see who will be the guy alongside Valtteri before discussing the contract. Regarding Theo, he is doing a good job, that he did two huge performances, in Monaco was a good one for me, but also Silverstone. And then we have to let Theo have time to improve and to build up not only the pace because he has the speed but all the education around this. He was 17 two months ago, I hope that he got his driving licence in the summer time! And that we have to take time. As Franz said before, F1 is very complicated. We have a very limited number of places; next year we have a new car that probably all the teams will have or could have reliability issues which means that we could arrive in Bahrain with very low mileage and we have to consider this also and for the drivers it’s never easy. It’s a challenge but we have to give them time for this for sure.
Q: (Ronald Vording – motorsport.com) Fred, another one on the driver line-up next year. Lately there’s been quite a lot of talk about Nyck de Vries in the Formula 1 paddock. Is he still on your list, so among the drivers that you are considering for next year and the follow-up to that, how much of an obstacle is it that Nyck is still a Mercedes driver? I know that you’ve said before that you are the one to decide on the line-up and not Ferrari but is that an obstacle in any way that he’s a Mercedes driver and you are still using Ferrari power units?
FV: For sure it’s not the most comfortable situation. I think Nyck did a good job in the junior series, that he won the F2 with ART, he won the Formula E this season and he did a good job when he jumped into the car in F1 in Abu Dhabi last year, I think. I know him very well, because he drove for ART a couple of years in the past, but I think the situation with Mercedes, it’s not an easy one. And… you are doing the list, I’m not doing the list!
Q: (Luke Smith – Autosport) Franz, about another one of your former drivers, Alexander Albon who will be making a comeback to F1 next season with Williams. How pleased are you to see him get back on the F1 grid. I know you only worked together for a short period of time but what are the main strengths and assets that he will bring to Williams next season?
FT: Well, I am really pleased that he is back in Formula 1 because he deserves a Formula 1 seat. Alex is a fast driver, he’s a mature driver and I think that next year Williams will have a very strong driver line-up.
Q: (Dieter Rencken – Racing Lines) To both of you: Ross Brawn has said that Formula 1 is looking at potentially making sprint races stand-alone events rather than qualifying sessions, so are you a) in favour of the sprint events in any format and b) would making them stand-alone events devalue the Grand Prix in that there would be two official winners in a weekend?
FT: First of all, I think the new format is a good idea because we now have on Friday a highlight with the qualifying and Saturday is sprint qualifying and on Sunday the race but of course we always must do everything that the highlight of the weekend must be the race on Sunday and I think the current format which we have, this is the sprint qualifying, is a good possibility of cover all this. I don’t think it’s a good solution for every race track but… because in Monaco or Budapest it would become difficult because of the overtaking situation but generally I’m in favour of this new format. How we do it, in detail, with the sprint… yeah, something we have to discuss but once more, the race on Sunday must stay there, absolutely the highlight.
FV: I think that we all agreed, a couple of months ago, when the FOM proposed the sprint race, to do the test on three different tracks, to do a live experiment, and I think it makes sense to go until the end of the test because it went pretty well in Silverstone. We need to have a look at what could happen in Monza and then on another track in Sao Paulo and then we will see if we have to change it or not but I think that it will make sense to have a look at what we are doing, how it’s working and then to decide to change after.
Q: (Alan Baldwin – Reuters) Fred, I’m not convinced you actually answered my earlier question. Is Guangyu Zhou under consideration as an Alfa driver?
FV: Zhou is doing a good job in F2; for sure he’s on the list. It’s only due to the fact that he’s Chinese, that he’s a front runner in F2. He’s won some races and I think every single team in F1 is looking at him, but now, as I said before, but we have the first four events went a bit different. Now they are coming back to more standard tracks and the young guys in F2 have more experience and then we will see in two or three events where we are what is the evolution of every single driver in F2.
Q: (Scott Mitchell – The Race) Franz, Yuki’s talked a lot about the issue of losing confidence when he’s had crashes or setbacks. Do you think, confirming him for 2022 quite early, will help him rebuild his confidence as it shows you and the team have faith in him?
FT: Yeah, of course this helps, because he knows he’s with the team – and as I’ve already mentioned before – the second half of the season will not become so easy as he will be on race tracks that he doesn’t know but nevertheless he is improving his performance, he’s doing a good job and therefore, parallel to this, he will also improve his self-confidence and of course, if you crash with a Formula 1 car, at higher speeds, it’s not an easy one just to take it away but I think that Yuki has the nature to get back his self-confidence the more laps that’s doing, the better it will be.
Q: (Luke Smith – Autosport) Fred, we know that Alfa Romeo did express an interest to Red Bull about potentially Alex Albon for next year; could you talk us through how far negotiations went and are you disappointed that he signed for Williams and not for you?
FV: I think that this you have to ask to Alex more than myself but I have a couple of discussions with Alex, I’ve known him for a long time and I respect the choice of Alex, not an issue.
Q: (Christian Nimmervoll – motorsport.com) Fred, Michael Andretti has recently confirmed his interest into buying into an F1 team. Is Sauber Motorsport for sale if the right buyer with the right conditions came along?
FV: First, I think it’s not the case and on top of this, I am the CEO of the company, I’m running the company but I think if one day this kind of discussion happened, it won’t be with me, it will be with my shareholders.